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Subject: [BUG] ME Errors
Lets get back to our problems... xD
Here is a CLEAR example of the problems of the ME. Can someone please present this to the Devs??
Link 1: http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19419225
FC Meniskuskicker - WC Baden 06 0:1
Date: 2012-07-01 15:49
League match: Bundesliga
Stadium: FC Meniskuskicker Arena
Weather: moderate clouds
cool
Spectators: 41120
FC Meniskuskicker WC Baden 06
5212nowing Tactics 5122
55% Possession 45%
19% Play in the half 81%
15 Shots 2
1 Fouls 1
0 Yellow cards 0
0 Red cards 0
3 Offsides 3
71.8 average mark 56
formidable Shooting solid
formidable Passing solid
incredible Defending solid
Link 2: http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19419219
Sgt. Pepper`s LHC - FC Meniskuskicker 2:0
Date: 2012-06-24 15:49
League match: Bundesliga
Stadium: lok 9 Arena
Weather: no clouds
warm
Spectators: 44492
Sgt. Pepper`s LHC FC Meniskuskicker
lourssept Tactics 5212hh
48% Possession 52%
75% Play in the half 25%
2 Shots 6
5 Fouls 1
3 Yellow cards 0
0 Red cards 0
2 Offsides 6
65.9 average mark 70.3
very good Shooting very good
excellent Passing formidable
incredible Defending brilliant
Here is a CLEAR example of the problems of the ME. Can someone please present this to the Devs??
Link 1: http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19419225
FC Meniskuskicker - WC Baden 06 0:1
Date: 2012-07-01 15:49
League match: Bundesliga
Stadium: FC Meniskuskicker Arena
Weather: moderate clouds
cool
Spectators: 41120
FC Meniskuskicker WC Baden 06
5212nowing Tactics 5122
55% Possession 45%
19% Play in the half 81%
15 Shots 2
1 Fouls 1
0 Yellow cards 0
0 Red cards 0
3 Offsides 3
71.8 average mark 56
formidable Shooting solid
formidable Passing solid
incredible Defending solid
Link 2: http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19419219
Sgt. Pepper`s LHC - FC Meniskuskicker 2:0
Date: 2012-06-24 15:49
League match: Bundesliga
Stadium: lok 9 Arena
Weather: no clouds
warm
Spectators: 44492
Sgt. Pepper`s LHC FC Meniskuskicker
lourssept Tactics 5212hh
48% Possession 52%
75% Play in the half 25%
2 Shots 6
5 Fouls 1
3 Yellow cards 0
0 Red cards 0
2 Offsides 6
65.9 average mark 70.3
very good Shooting very good
excellent Passing formidable
incredible Defending brilliant
Is not really difficult:my championship group has 4,8 average goals/match(my own club has 5/match)-my friendlies has 3-4 goals to.
Im not totally agreed, still been a hight % of 1-0. 1-1 matchs.
Also in one of my league games, the worst striker was the best one, how you could defend that? My last cup game when I was eliminated "early" btw... how it is possible playing with 3 "good" strikers against a young excellent keeper of 17 years old and the keeper make all the saves?? you can´t defend that like "is not really difficult" PLEASE
Im not totally agreed, still been a hight % of 1-0. 1-1 matchs.
Also in one of my league games, the worst striker was the best one, how you could defend that? My last cup game when I was eliminated "early" btw... how it is possible playing with 3 "good" strikers against a young excellent keeper of 17 years old and the keeper make all the saves?? you can´t defend that like "is not really difficult" PLEASE
Watch out it doesn't become cherry picking as I can also find the same examples in the old ME :) To make a point many of these examples are needed to make the data valid and useful. There are 60.000 matches each weekend so a few examples doesn't prove a thing. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that much more examples are needed.
what else do you need if the whole community its complaining?
I understand. And agree. But I really dont want to take so much of my time to get the link of all these games.
I actually finally won by a good margin this week, but that does not change the fact that the ME isnt working as it should.
I think there has been way too many people talking about the same problems. It should be enough.
I dont know if it was just me, but at least the pace factor seems to have changed. At least my opponent scored a goal because his forward just ran by my defensemen... I dont know.
The GK seems way too strong still. Many teams actually getting better performances from their weaker forwards and GKs.. is really bizarre.
I actually finally won by a good margin this week, but that does not change the fact that the ME isnt working as it should.
I think there has been way too many people talking about the same problems. It should be enough.
I dont know if it was just me, but at least the pace factor seems to have changed. At least my opponent scored a goal because his forward just ran by my defensemen... I dont know.
The GK seems way too strong still. Many teams actually getting better performances from their weaker forwards and GKs.. is really bizarre.
Since there is no update on what the devs have been working on since 10 days I don't know if that's fixed already.. this week it seemed better, but I don't know.
Some examples of silly launching and slowing down: Match
Minute 46: blue nr. 2
Minute 54: yellow nr. 2
Minute 66: yellow nr. 2
Minute 81: blue nr. 10
Minute 82: yellow nr. 5
Some examples of silly launching and slowing down: Match
Minute 46: blue nr. 2
Minute 54: yellow nr. 2
Minute 66: yellow nr. 2
Minute 81: blue nr. 10
Minute 82: yellow nr. 5
Just replied to you through Sk Mail as well.
Sent you also this offside bug that All in the best, posted in another topic.
http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19479483
In minute 4, one of his strikers heads the ball forward towards another striker from his team which is clearly offside and it isn't called. Of course that striker runs off against the opponent GK by himself and scores.
Sent you also this offside bug that All in the best, posted in another topic.
http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19479483
In minute 4, one of his strikers heads the ball forward towards another striker from his team which is clearly offside and it isn't called. Of course that striker runs off against the opponent GK by himself and scores.
Morsey,
I don't know how to explain it. I understand that you show that your "weak" striker actually scored a lot against a very strong Goalkeeper.
What happens is... that is somewhat part of the problem too... why does THAT happen and on the other hand, "very strong" Strikers can barely score against "weak" Goalkeepers??
It just "seems", I can't say it is a certainty... that this new ME by accident or by planning benefits the weaker Striking and Goaltending... and thus weird scenarios happen where a weak team shoots 2 times against a very strong Goalkeeper and scores both times (no problems here apparently right??) but the other team has very strong Strikers and even though they shoot like 20 to 40 times (depending on the match) they can barely score once! (this is WITH taking into account that lets say 50% of those chances are off target. Which still means they barely score 1 in like 15 shots. Much less than the weaker striker´s performance).
I don't know how to explain it. I understand that you show that your "weak" striker actually scored a lot against a very strong Goalkeeper.
What happens is... that is somewhat part of the problem too... why does THAT happen and on the other hand, "very strong" Strikers can barely score against "weak" Goalkeepers??
It just "seems", I can't say it is a certainty... that this new ME by accident or by planning benefits the weaker Striking and Goaltending... and thus weird scenarios happen where a weak team shoots 2 times against a very strong Goalkeeper and scores both times (no problems here apparently right??) but the other team has very strong Strikers and even though they shoot like 20 to 40 times (depending on the match) they can barely score once! (this is WITH taking into account that lets say 50% of those chances are off target. Which still means they barely score 1 in like 15 shots. Much less than the weaker striker´s performance).
You wanted from us to write here bugs we saw.
[url=]http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19449975[/url]
6 mns: De Serisay pushes the ball forward but is slower than a snail
10 mns: During a corner, Landry is on the goal-line but not in front of the goal
26 mns: As a forward's coming to the goal, the two central def Lizarazu and Philibert position themselves one behind the other instead of on the same line
28 mns: Ringrose pushes the ball forward but is slower than a snail
29 mns: Rénier pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate
53 mns: De Serisay pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate
66 mns: Grigor gots the ball along the touch-line, when he pushes it, it goes out of the line
75 mns: Workman pushes the ball but is slower than a snail
[url=]http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19449975[/url]
6 mns: De Serisay pushes the ball forward but is slower than a snail
10 mns: During a corner, Landry is on the goal-line but not in front of the goal
26 mns: As a forward's coming to the goal, the two central def Lizarazu and Philibert position themselves one behind the other instead of on the same line
28 mns: Ringrose pushes the ball forward but is slower than a snail
29 mns: Rénier pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate
53 mns: De Serisay pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate
66 mns: Grigor gots the ball along the touch-line, when he pushes it, it goes out of the line
75 mns: Workman pushes the ball but is slower than a snail
That is where the reality comes in though, there shouldn't be a fixed rate at how many goals you score in a certain amount of chances, otherwise the game would be boring. It is interesting to see good strikers fail and weak keepers have a good run once in a while, it is what makes it realistic and not linear.
Agreed. I just think that there are some scenarios where it is just to unreal. You can't have 40+ shots and not make one single goal. If it was only one... then yeah... I guess... Unbelievable as it is. But there are way too many 30+ vs. 1 or 2 and other games 25+ vs. 1 or 2 shots that they just keep losing 0-1, 0-2, 1-2, etc...
Im just asking for a little lower % of GK ability if that is the write word to use. I think they elevated their reaction and skill a little too much and a little leveling is all I ask.
Im just asking for a little lower % of GK ability if that is the write word to use. I think they elevated their reaction and skill a little too much and a little leveling is all I ask.
Great :) Copied and posted to show the DEVs. Thanks for your help.
Mr Llama wrote this on another topic:
Mr-Llama para menasure
I was the USA NT coach so I had first hand experience with this :P
Also, to answer the 8 questions from before:
1. Lack of precision of Forwards in general.
it wasnt changed. My question would be "Why?". This is one of two main reasons why teams with 20+ shooting difference than their opponents, are still not winning.
2. Goalkeepers are way too strong. Even if they may be only Excellent or Formidable Keeper level.
This is the 2nd reason why scoring has become so difficult. High level forwards are having a VERY hard time scoring against weak goal keepers. I understand that maybe they do this to avoid upsetting the new users from getting big losses. But if that is what really needs to happen, it just has to happen. This is upsetting every good and long time manager that knows what to expect in a normal scenario.
3. Pace. It looks better to me now to be honest. It didn't look the same as before in the first games... non the less.. is something that matters very little in regards to the other problems which is where I want the Devs to direct their attention too.
4. Players slow down after launching the ball forward to breakaway from rivals.
Look at the links that Fanakick posted in the "ME Errors" topic just before you replied to me. He detailed the exact minutes in his match where a player would kick the ball slightly forward of him to supposedly run faster and pull away from an opponent, but instead, as soon as they kick the ball forward a little, they slow down.
5. The penalties are really bad. Players are missing a very high % of them. And missing them in a very ridiculous way too!
6. "All in the best" posted an "offside" problem. And I took a look at his game too.
In this game,http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19479483
He scores in minute 4. One of his forwards heads it to his other forward who is clearly offside and it isn't called.
7. This problem is an old one from the old ME as well. The goalkeeper ends up walking all the way to where he grabbed the ball, to kick it out. Why can't he just stay in front of his own goal and kick it? It is safer because sometimes he can kick it bad and at the same time he is far away from his own goal.
8. Also and old ME problem. Kickoff after a goal sometime starts even when opponent players have yet to go back to their half of the field.
If you really fix some of this problems, will be this engine and game more agreed and we could make our promo and other work on silence.I want this, not more losing stars and angry people.
1. Shooting power has been decreased. Therefore the shots are not as strong and keepers can save more. Not only that but with combination play now there is less shots overall since greg didn't just want people playing a 5-3-2 and sending the ball from defenders to strikers for breakaways constantly.
2. No change in goalkeepers. The only change was shot power was decreased. That being said, I think we need to increase it a little bit or actually change up keepers so that there is more of a difference.
3. after the initial change, pace was very messed up. I actually lost my cup game due to this horrible pace change because all of the sudden my superdivine pace players were slower than my excellent pace players and his guys ran around me strangely fast. It was very weird and messed up. That being said, the last game that I watched the pace change seemed fixed and it was very appropriate. My speedy guys were actually able to breakaway or catch up in a much more natural manner and the speed seemed fixed to me.
4. This is true but people need to give more matches and minutes of the bugs. We simply need more data on this.
5. I think this needs to be changed and I'm currently discussing with greg about this. He is afraid that the game will have too many PK goals/1 on 1 goals and that it will be boring because goals won't come from anything but this. We're trying to find a good balance where they will make a difference, but other goals will still be exciting and make a difference in the game.
6. There are some animation glitches that lead to multiple offsides. We need more data so if you are experiencing these obvious offsides please keep posting them here.
7. Personally the goalie punting the ball has never been too much of an issue to me. It's something if enough people are bugged about though that I will talk to greg.
8. Yeah I just had this happen a couple of times in my last game. This is a minor bug but something that still needs to be fixed eventually.
This is great. This is what I wanted to hear... that they are looking at our requests and answering why this or that will or not be changed. This is great. Thanks. Its a very good step forward for the communication with the people that are in charge of the ME.
Mr-Llama para menasure
I was the USA NT coach so I had first hand experience with this :P
Also, to answer the 8 questions from before:
1. Lack of precision of Forwards in general.
it wasnt changed. My question would be "Why?". This is one of two main reasons why teams with 20+ shooting difference than their opponents, are still not winning.
2. Goalkeepers are way too strong. Even if they may be only Excellent or Formidable Keeper level.
This is the 2nd reason why scoring has become so difficult. High level forwards are having a VERY hard time scoring against weak goal keepers. I understand that maybe they do this to avoid upsetting the new users from getting big losses. But if that is what really needs to happen, it just has to happen. This is upsetting every good and long time manager that knows what to expect in a normal scenario.
3. Pace. It looks better to me now to be honest. It didn't look the same as before in the first games... non the less.. is something that matters very little in regards to the other problems which is where I want the Devs to direct their attention too.
4. Players slow down after launching the ball forward to breakaway from rivals.
Look at the links that Fanakick posted in the "ME Errors" topic just before you replied to me. He detailed the exact minutes in his match where a player would kick the ball slightly forward of him to supposedly run faster and pull away from an opponent, but instead, as soon as they kick the ball forward a little, they slow down.
5. The penalties are really bad. Players are missing a very high % of them. And missing them in a very ridiculous way too!
6. "All in the best" posted an "offside" problem. And I took a look at his game too.
In this game,http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19479483
He scores in minute 4. One of his forwards heads it to his other forward who is clearly offside and it isn't called.
7. This problem is an old one from the old ME as well. The goalkeeper ends up walking all the way to where he grabbed the ball, to kick it out. Why can't he just stay in front of his own goal and kick it? It is safer because sometimes he can kick it bad and at the same time he is far away from his own goal.
8. Also and old ME problem. Kickoff after a goal sometime starts even when opponent players have yet to go back to their half of the field.
If you really fix some of this problems, will be this engine and game more agreed and we could make our promo and other work on silence.I want this, not more losing stars and angry people.
1. Shooting power has been decreased. Therefore the shots are not as strong and keepers can save more. Not only that but with combination play now there is less shots overall since greg didn't just want people playing a 5-3-2 and sending the ball from defenders to strikers for breakaways constantly.
2. No change in goalkeepers. The only change was shot power was decreased. That being said, I think we need to increase it a little bit or actually change up keepers so that there is more of a difference.
3. after the initial change, pace was very messed up. I actually lost my cup game due to this horrible pace change because all of the sudden my superdivine pace players were slower than my excellent pace players and his guys ran around me strangely fast. It was very weird and messed up. That being said, the last game that I watched the pace change seemed fixed and it was very appropriate. My speedy guys were actually able to breakaway or catch up in a much more natural manner and the speed seemed fixed to me.
4. This is true but people need to give more matches and minutes of the bugs. We simply need more data on this.
5. I think this needs to be changed and I'm currently discussing with greg about this. He is afraid that the game will have too many PK goals/1 on 1 goals and that it will be boring because goals won't come from anything but this. We're trying to find a good balance where they will make a difference, but other goals will still be exciting and make a difference in the game.
6. There are some animation glitches that lead to multiple offsides. We need more data so if you are experiencing these obvious offsides please keep posting them here.
7. Personally the goalie punting the ball has never been too much of an issue to me. It's something if enough people are bugged about though that I will talk to greg.
8. Yeah I just had this happen a couple of times in my last game. This is a minor bug but something that still needs to be fixed eventually.
This is great. This is what I wanted to hear... that they are looking at our requests and answering why this or that will or not be changed. This is great. Thanks. Its a very good step forward for the communication with the people that are in charge of the ME.
A little more info that I can add here for all of us to know (it has been discussed on another forum in the Sokker International, but I wanted to update it here).
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Mr-Llama para alvarocine
I will simply have to run this stuff by greg and see what he can say. I have extracted his answers from before somewhat and put them into that post, but there is still debate and I simply can't say he is going to increase shot power or what not. Some of that is my opinion up there so even if I think it'd be a good idea, greg may not and if we can't agree on it then sometimes that's how it ends up.
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2012-07-03 21:45:30
alvarocine para Mr-Llama
I understand. All I ask, if possible is not only to know what he says yes or no too, but hopefully a why to also understand his thinking about his view of how he wants the ME to work.
Like in regards to the PKs... which hopefully he can make it a small % better without the problems that he states he fears about too many games winning by PKs in game.... so far I have heard of none, so maybe he can increase it a little.
And well.. the shot power of forwards... that will be up to him. Hopefully he will at least try a small increase.
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2012-07-03 21:50:05
Mr-Llama para alvarocine
in terms of the PKs and 1 on 1s this is definitely a big discussion right now.
Like I said, he is really scared of making the game ruined by too many PKs and 1 on 1 chances counting to where that is all that matters
That being said, there is a balance and I don't think we're there yet.
A big deal with the scores right now is not enough shots because of this new combination play. Greg is really thinking about this issue and possibly increasing game length to allow for more shots, but this also allows for more injuries and cards and etc so it's still a highly debated topic. Nothing is final yet but we are all working on figuring out the best way to solve this.
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Mr-Llama para alvarocine
I will simply have to run this stuff by greg and see what he can say. I have extracted his answers from before somewhat and put them into that post, but there is still debate and I simply can't say he is going to increase shot power or what not. Some of that is my opinion up there so even if I think it'd be a good idea, greg may not and if we can't agree on it then sometimes that's how it ends up.
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2012-07-03 21:45:30
alvarocine para Mr-Llama
I understand. All I ask, if possible is not only to know what he says yes or no too, but hopefully a why to also understand his thinking about his view of how he wants the ME to work.
Like in regards to the PKs... which hopefully he can make it a small % better without the problems that he states he fears about too many games winning by PKs in game.... so far I have heard of none, so maybe he can increase it a little.
And well.. the shot power of forwards... that will be up to him. Hopefully he will at least try a small increase.
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2012-07-03 21:50:05
Mr-Llama para alvarocine
in terms of the PKs and 1 on 1s this is definitely a big discussion right now.
Like I said, he is really scared of making the game ruined by too many PKs and 1 on 1 chances counting to where that is all that matters
That being said, there is a balance and I don't think we're there yet.
A big deal with the scores right now is not enough shots because of this new combination play. Greg is really thinking about this issue and possibly increasing game length to allow for more shots, but this also allows for more injuries and cards and etc so it's still a highly debated topic. Nothing is final yet but we are all working on figuring out the best way to solve this.
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http://online.sokker.org/comment.php?matchID=19499423
min 52 AFET pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate
min 71 Opfer with DIVINE pace pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate
min 75 Cuba pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate
min 52 AFET pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate
min 71 Opfer with DIVINE pace pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate
min 75 Cuba pushes the ball forward but doesn't accelerate